Covering up license plates

[Lord Vadus]

I've never understood this; why do people do it for eBay auctions and pictures? I've seen many potentially great pictures ruined by a crude removal of a few digits that anyone who plies the roads can see.

Does anyone have any theories? I'm led to believe that it's some form of a security concern, but it's not like you really need to worry about it because you're at a far greater risk of having the physical plate stolen from the car in a parking lot than you are of having the numbers copied off of an internet picture.

It also tends to be the random plates that are hidden. People with personal plates tend to have few reservations about posting them online; perhaps it's an ego thing and part of the reason they get the plates in the first place? By the way, I'm guilty of having a personalized plate; "DRACULA," on my DeLorean, so I always expect comments.

[sigmfsk]

Hi LV:

When I posted the pic of your car at Zac's house, I blocked out your plate.


from:
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=reunion&thread=48&post=307

I blocked it out, because some people appreciate it, and it was easier that asking if you cared. To discuss WHY some people would care, I guess a main reason is that some people remember how Rebecca Schaeffer was murdered after a fan got her address from the DMV:
secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Rebecca_Schaeffer

or people that remember that story tell people to cover their license plate info. The fact that a license plate number itself seems not to have been involved is immaterial to the scare factor.

You write:
> you're at a far greater risk of having the physical plate stolen
> from the car in a parking lot than you are of having the numbers
> copied off of an internet picture.
but I'm not so sure. I'd put the chances of either quite low, but I'd think the internet problem would be much more likely.

There are only so many people that can physically see one's plate when driving around in 24 hours. But when posting it on the internet, millions of people can see it. And that makes it easier for someone to do something nefarious with the info. Like what? If one doesn't post the picture, then we don't have to figure out. Maybe someone would duplicate your blumo plate, stick it on their blumo, then go tear up the town or rob a bank. Maybe stick it on their car and run through red-light cameras to cause you some hassle.

I blocked out my VIN here:
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=owners&thread=45&post=105

just so I didn't have to figure out what people could do with it.

But then later posted it here:
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=details&action=display&thread=164

because I thought the benefit of sharing it outweighed the benefit of keeping it private. I guess we could have blanked out the tens and zero digit of the VIN and still kept the majority of the benefit of correlating a VIN with a build date. That would limit an evildoer to a 1 in 100 chance of correctly guessing someone's VIN.

just some thoughts,
arthur

[Lord Vadus]

The internet may make it easier to see the same car as yours with a license plate and may increase the risk of copying and theft that way, but what would they do with that? Most people don't have the technology or capabilities to to create a convincing replica plate. By comparison, when times get tough, there is always an increase in theft of plates and stickers by people who don't want to pay their renewal. Some people even go so far as to cut stickers off the plates with tin snips, though most thieves simply remove them with a screwdriver and take the entire plate.

While there are a few things that one could do with a copied license plate, it would be fairly simple to defend yourself from any allegations of wrongdoing based solely on your license plate.

I've also debated shuffling plates between cars; having two 1981 DeLoreans and 1974 Dodge Monacos, where both vehicles will have identical finishes to the ones I currently have registered, it would require comparing the VIN on the registration to the one on the car in order to catch the discrepancy. The best reason I can think of against this is the hassle of remembering which car has the plate and when, since I store my cars in various places, and the fact that I don't want any insurance issues.

[sigmfsk]

Oct 11, 2011 9:33:36 GMT -5 Lord Vadus said:

...it would be fairly simple to defend yourself from any allegations of wrongdoing based solely on your license plate.

Maybe. But simple doesn't mean no-hassle. Remember the innocent firefighter who spent 5 months on administrative leave after being charged with arson because he used a supermarket shopping card to buy fire starters.
www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/02/security_risks.html
The only reason that charges were dropped was because someone else admitted to the arson.

If person A copied person B's license plate, and then went and performed some shenanigans, person B could end up in a world of trouble. Even person A running a red-light could cause a good amount of trouble. Maybe person B could not successfully convince the court that it wasn't him. And then he has too many points and loses his license, and then his job, and so on.

Now the likelihood of all that happening may be rather low, but the cost of not putting a license plate image on the internet is also rather low, so I can see different people making different decisions.

your friend in decision making,
arthur

[Lord Vadus]

A valid point, though it's one that I don't imagine anyone has to worry about too much with a classic car. It's not like there are too many cars around that could easily be mistaken in this manner.

Thanks for the insight into this. I've never driven a car that could easily be mistaken for another, so I admit I'm a little biased.

[AZBlues]

I've never bothered to do it, drive your car down the freeway and thousands see the plate. The chances of some random internet wacko causing problems in some way are about the same as a local wacko doing it.

-AZB

[sigmfsk]

Oct 12, 2011 11:07:17 GMT -5 AZBlues said:

I've never bothered to do it, drive your car down the freeway and thousands see the plate. The chances of some random internet wacko causing problems in some way are about the same as a local wacko doing it.

-AZB

> The chances of some random internet wacko causing problems in
> some way are about the same as a local wacko doing it.

I think we're considering different threats. The chances of one waiting on a street corner and watching a red chevrolet caprice drive by is rather low. But one can find a plate for that type of car in an instant on the internet.

I think the threat would be someone specifically selecting your plate because your car matched their car.

Perp says:
- I want to pull some shenanigans.
- I live in Alabama
- I have a red 1993 chevrolet caprice

he does a google image search for "1993 alabama red chevrolet caprice license plate", and then bam, the first image is a plate he can use.

He does some bad stuff, and you get inconvenienced (at a minimum), because he used your plate.

You heard about thousands of people sharing the same supermarket shopping card so everyone gets pseudo anonymity and great discounts - we can all use BDR529 as our plate.

[AZBlues]

It's possible, but just how probable is it? And would you, by chance, look like the perp in the surveillance pics or the witnesses' recollections? Forensic evidence wouldn't match anything either. I can't say that I've ever heard of this happening.

-AZB

[sigmfsk]

Oct 13, 2011 1:47:34 GMT -5 AZBlues said:

It's possible, but just how probable is it? And would you, by chance, look like the perp in the surveillance pics or the witnesses' recollections? Forensic evidence wouldn't match anything either. I can't say that I've ever heard of this happening.

-AZB

I'm not trying to say it's probable. I think probability of something happening is just part of the equation.

It's not probable that you get raided by the cops because the neighbor uses your wireless internet to access illegal stuff, but it happens:
arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/04/fbi-child-porn-raid-a-strong-argument-for-locking-down-wifi-networks.ars

It's not probable that you spend 4 days in jail because you were moving tortilla dough and the cops thought it was cocaine, but it happens:
www.citizen-times.com/article/20110507/NEWS/305070023/Man-jailed-tortilla-dough

These are situations where it all turned out well, but it sure was an inconvenience for these guys in the interim. Life is full of benefit/risk decisions, and I can understand people that think that the benefit/risk ratio of posting a pic of their license plate is about 0 and decide not to do it.