speedometer faces / wiring

[sigmfsk]

On BBC we had a good discussion going on the different types of speedometers.
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/4900-speedometer-in-kmh/page__view__findpost__p__116082
Now that it's back up, I can collate the information, and add some pics.

Environment	74	75	76	77
USA certified	A - Note 1	B	B	B
Canada certified	A - Note 1	B	B	C - Note 2
USA civilian	D - Note 1	E - Note 3	E	E
Canada civil	D - Note 1	E- Note 3	E	F
Europe civil	G	H	H	C - Note 2
USA w/warning	n/a	I - Note 4	I - Note 4	I - Note 4

A : 3592763 : 14o mph
B : 3593051 : 140 mph
C : 3593821 (for Canada) / 3593834 (for Europe), but identical part : 200kph/120mph
D : 3592759 : 12o mph
E : 3593052 : 100 mph
F : 3593817 : 160kph/100mph
G : 3592586 : 20o kph
H : 3593039 : 200 kph
I : 3593050 : 100 mph

Note 1:
The parts catalog shows 3592763 for certified 14o, but I believe the actual part number for the 14o certified is 3592759. This probably means that the part number for the civilian 12o is 3592763.

Note 2:
These part numbers map to the same speedo. The "C" style speedo I have has 3593821 marked on the back, while the box is marked 3593834.

Note 3: [11/17 edit to reference LV's 75 with 100 speedo]
The parts catalog that 1975 civilian mph cars should have a 100 speedo (same part as the 1976). But most pictures we have of a 1975 USA civilian car shows the 12o speedo (same part as the 1974). LV's 1975 has a 100mph speedo:
i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/DraculasCars/1975%20Dodge%20Royal%20Monaco%20Brougham/IMG_20121116_085523.jpg
from
www.bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=details&thread=996&post=7039
And we saw a Canadian 1975 car with a 100 mph speedo (king of the hill's little brother). Country Bunker's factory speedo is a 1974, but with a hole cut in it for "CHECK EGR" (like the 76/77s had, and 75 should have had), but without the "CATALYST" light. I show pics of Country's special 1975 speedo at the end.

Note 4: This one says "GATE AJAR" instead of "DOOR AJAR". Not in addition to - in replacement of. So this would seem to only be applicable for station wagons. But it would seem weird to have a GATE AJAR light without a DOOR AJAR light. What if a door was ajar? Why not just use the regular "DOOR AJAR" speedometer and wire the gate ajar switch to it? Here:
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/bluesmobiles-sale/9303-usa-1970s-dodge-plymouth-station-wagons-webfinds.html#post111958
Steam shows a 1977 Monaco station wagon, with a speedo that is faded sufficiently that it shows "DOOR AJAR". And the speedo has black tenths, indicating that it is an assembly line speedo, and it shows 31,401 miles, which matches the advertised 231K miles. So I'm guessing its the original speedo. If this didn't have the GATE AJAR idiot light, what monaco would? Maybe this speedo was never actually used on a production car? So I'm going to claim that I have the only "GATE AJAR" monaco speedo in existence. Heck, I might as well claim that it is the only one ever made. It was found at an old mopar dealership.

Note, these are all the non-KDX expo speedo's that came on 74-77 c-bodys. KDX expo speedos look quite different.

I group the pics in sets of 2, without backlight illumination, then with:

A : 3592763 : 14o mph






B : 3593051 : 140 mph




C : 3593821 (for Canada) / 3593834 (for Europe), but identical part : 200kph/120mph




D : 3592759 : 12o mph




E : 3593052 : 100 mph

]


F : 3593817 : 160kph/100mph



G : 3592586 : 20o kph

Having a hard time finding one of these.



H : 3593039 : 200 kph

Having a hard time finding one of these.



I : 3593050 : 100 mph




And Country Bunker's special 75 speedo, which is actually a 74 speedo with a hole cut out for "CHECK EGR".




All the idiot lights in the lower left are "OIL". It's hard to see in many of the pictures.


your friend in information collation,
arthur

[Steam McQueen]

Great thread. Visually pleasing . I love the blue on the 200/120 ...

-

Actually all the backlit faces looked so cool I couldn't help but think of mass producing them in miniature sizes, with a small led bulb, and market them as Christmas tree ornaments ...



;D

[sigmfsk]

That's a nice design, Steam! I contemplated getting the speedometer faces, mounting them between two panes of glass, thereby making a "suncatcher" out of them, and have them spin in the kitchen window. But then I thought it would be best to have them mounted to the wall, so visitors to the "Monaco Museum of Amazement" could press a button, and it would light up the appropriate speedometer.

The large 200kph speedo was on this car that you first posted a pic of the speedo on the BBC archives here:
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/6201-sold-germany-1974-dodge-monaco-440-bremen/page__view__findpost__p__87208



> Km/h only? Is that some sort of home-made speedometer? Heh,
> it just doesn't make any sense.

The seller, Stefan, then posted in that thread:

> By the way, a note for the Americans and Canadians: the km/h
> speedo is fully original - the car was made for export and
> delivered to Finland in 1974. There it was used as a
> representative car of a big coffee producer.

I later spoke with Stefan, and he had sold it to a guy, who I got in touch with, who had sold it to our board member bm4you:
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=owners&thread=136&post=549

anyway, I had some great e-mail chats with Stefan, and he commented that I was an "extreme speedometer collector". If he liked my suncatcher idea, I think he'll love your Christmas tree ornament idea.

your friend in business opportunities,
arthur

[sigmfsk]

Another thing we talked about on BBC was the "why" the Canadian speedos went to kph/mph in 1977.

Here:
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/4900-speedometer-in-kmh/page__view__findpost__p__115089

Steam posted:

I found this info regarding Canada's switch-over to klicks ...

> During the Labor Day weekend in 1977 every speed limit sign in
> the country was changed from mph to km/h. From the same time
> every new car sold had to have a speedometer that showed
> speed in km/h and distance in km. The distances on road signs
> were changed to kilometres during the next few months.

The references to 1978 being our switch-over year for mileage may be regarding road signs. The Big-3 would have known that any new car on a lot in Canada after Labor Day weekend 1977 would have to have klicks on the speedo. I wonder if all 1977 Royals sent to Canada already had dual speedo's or if each dealer had to swap faceplates on any unsold new cars on that first business day after Labor Day 1977? :eek:

I guess the Canadian cars with the 440's got the 200 klick dual speedo's?

-----------

And we found the answer was yes.

In 1977, Canadian civilian cars had the 160kph/100mph speedo (the only year/application for this speedo).
In 1977, Canadian cop cars got the 200kph/120mph speedo, which was also used for European exports (so this speedo had two applications, but only used in 1977).

--------------

KDX expo speedometers were a different form factor for a different dash:

example:

from here:
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=details&action=display&thread=365

[sigmfsk]

> Well I thought we'd never seen a USA 1975 with a 100mph
> speedo, but here's one...

And cbodymopar sent the following pic of his 1975 that he's parting out. So it seems that 1975 had more 120mph speedos than 100mph speedos, but certainly 100mph speedos weren't unheard of.



your friend in hearing of things,
arthur

[scatpack]

Is there a difference in the 74 and 75 clusters besides the numbers?

Do they function the same as far as the wiring? I'll be working on my car in the next couple weeks. Gonna get it legal and road worthy.

[sigmfsk]

Jun 3, 2013 10:39:10 GMT -5 scatpack said:

Is there a difference in the 74 and 75 clusters besides the numbers?

Do they function the same as far as the wiring?

75-77 have two extra idiot lights over the 74 (check egr, and catalyst). You can see them in the faces pics above.

The instrument cluster housing is also different 74 vs. 75-77:


A quick look seems to indicate that you could move clusters between years, and the worst that would happen is that the 2 extra lights wouldn't work.

[scatpack]

Ok. as long as they swap out. I am gonna take the 2 I have and make a good working unit with the 75 face and sell the 74 face plate to ..........he know's who he is.
thanks Arthur