black / white paint scheme

[sigmfsk]

Lots of info from here:
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/5392-black-and-white-paint-startstop/#entry76192


black
- Fenders, hood, and everything forward (red primer spot discussed in another thread)
- quarter panels, trunk
- rocker panels front and back

roof: white

front door
- outside lower: white
- outside window frame: white
- inside window frame: white
- inside rear edge: driver can be black or white, passenger is always white

rear door
- outside lower: black
- outside window frame: white
- inside window frame: white / black. It's white just on the inside lip, but black for the main portion. See the Blue Lou pic below.
- inside rear edge: black

a-pillar white, outside and in

other areas described below:

c-pillar dividing line (from white roof to black quarter panel)
b-pillar / door jamb area
c-pillar dividing line (hidden when rear door closed)

---

Many pics of the blumo in the "exterior trim" thread:
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=screen&action=display&thread=699

Check them out, and I add some here.

Black on inside of window frame and rear edge of rear doors.





Some front door rear edge shots:



--

c-pillar dividing line (from white roof to black quarter panel)

If you look at the "exterior trim" thread, most of the pics show the dividing line basically horizontal, ending a bit lower than the upper edge of the rear door:

examples:


but here's one pic where the line is a little higher (but still lower than the upper edge of the rear door)



and if you look at the hi-res dancing kids pic from www.74monaco.com
www.74monaco.com/74-monaco-website/hires-blumo/hires-blumo-13.html
that dividing line curves up so that it meets the upper rear edge of the door



TK826 and I did some chatting about the line on BBC, about whether the dividing line would be better BELOW the chrome strip, or ABOVE the chrome strip. I think both could be screen accurate.

For my car, I'm thinking above chrome strip would be a good screen accurate spot. So that would make the dividing line the same as the white/green line on Marin County:


and down about 3/8" from an easy-to-measure part of the body:
up to a 1" drop could be within the range of screen accurate:


But that's just one plan; that dividing line has a lot of screen accurate options. It looks like anywhere from 0" to 1" down is fine.

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b-pillar / door jamb area : complicated

The b-pillar is always white where visible with the doors closed:



The lower portion can also be white:


Or black:


and then the fall-apart car:


Having a dividing line seems common.

Here's what MBMOPAR did:


And here's a pic of a 1974 Chicago PD Monaco (presumably showing a factory placed dividing line)


My Marin County b-pillar was all green top to bottom, so it's not much help:




Here are some pics from the BBC thread. I include here to provide some ideas of decisions to be made when painting.

------

The way Huey paints his blumos:


-------

Swedish bluesmobile:



--------

$25K blumo



-----

c-pillar dividing line (hidden when rear door closed)

Marin County doesn't have one:


I think there are only two times that a rear door is opened in the movie, and I can't make out any divider details either time:



I think we only have the fall-a-part car, which doesn't have the angle to show if there's a dividing line or not:



We have this alternate angle pic of the same scene:


This might not be considered screen accurate, but it's a hint of what the movie blumo could look like (including a non-AC blockoff plate). It doesn't seem to show the dividing line either.

But since the bottom of the c-pillar is black, and the upper of the b-pillar is white, there has to be a dividing line somewhere, it makes sense to me to put it at the same place as the CPD:



Post any suggestions/corrections, and I'll edit this top post to keep it up-to-date with the most recent/correct info.

thanks,
arthur

[spanks79]

I am getting closer and closer to spraying some paint on my car. My buddy and I were discussing the black to white tape line on the c pillar and door jam. The line dividing between the roof and quarter seems simple enough. We are going to tape it off at about 1" down from the door relief and see how it looks. The question then becomes what to do in the door jam itself? I see from the above thread that presumably, the stock paint job would have continued the line on the quarter straight thru the jam like this pic.
But then I saw that Blusmbl did his jam like this
It appears that he opted to follow or replicate the "contour" of the door on into the jam.
In terms of accuracy, I don't think there is a right or wrong way to do this, Im just exploring options.
Any thoughts or opinions?

Also as to the paint itself. My plan is to copy Blusmbl once again and use gloss black in the jams and a "rot rod" satin black on the exterior. I know that to be completely accurate the whole car should be gloss and left to age / get dirty naturally, but my car will be garage kept and I may not live long enough for it to look correct, so that is my reasoning behind the satin sheen. For the white my plan is gloss on everything but I like the way Blusmbl wet sanded his white to tone it down, I may do the same. That have the rest of you done?

[sigmfsk]

Jun 16, 2012 8:40:51 GMT -5 spanks79 said:

I know that to be completely accurate the whole car should be gloss and left to age / get dirty naturally, but my car will be garage kept and I may not live long enough for it to look correct, so that is my reasoning behind the satin sheen. For the white my plan is gloss on everything but I like the way Blusmbl wet sanded his white to tone it down, I may do the same. That have the rest of you done?

Here are some from BBC:

ChiTown John:
> Go 100 % w/ Gloss, a couple of coats of that w/ no Clear, a little or
> more sun, and Dirt are going to greatly acheive your look. So you still
> see a shine here and there. If you choose to wash your car, then your
> going to want to do what other guys have said and to fade the paint
> somehow.
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/5367-painting-qs/#entry75732

Huey:
> used gloss enamel or base coat clear coat and let them bake in the out
> of doors, then spray down with WD40 and take them out in the nastiest
> dirt I can find for a good thrashing.
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/5367-painting-qs/#entry76681

You mention that you may not go glossy because it could take too long to get correctly dirty. Huey's WD40 / dirt driving plan might help with that. And since the movie company painted civilian cars black and white for the movie they had to artificially dirtify them.

The following is an opinion of Elwood565B from that same paint thread on BBC. I thought he did a nice job with his reasoning, and it persuaded me to go glossy. I'm not trying to persuade you to go glossy, but include his comments just for related info in the paint thread.

Elwood565B:
> my personal opinion when it comes to the matter of the black and white
> paint job on a bluesmobile replica has always been this: the real
> bluesmobile came from the factory with a gloss paint job, so for the
> most authentic look, paint it with gloss. you dont have to clear coat it,
> just like chitownjohn didnt, and that will help the aging process. but
> again...in my personal opinion, i dont think the paint on the bluesmobile
> had faded all that much, its just that it was REALLY dirty. if you look
> closely at the car throughout the movie, you will notice that when light
> hits the car, there is actually quite a bit of reflection coming off the
> paint...same for when the bluesmobile gets wet...it gets pretty shiney.
> and as youve asked him for input, i think that chitownjohn's bluesmobile
> is an excellent example of the more realistic looking aging process. the
> flat black and white looks cheap.
>
> going with flat black and white to me has always seemed like the easy
> way out when trying to get the bluesmobile look, to me it really doesnt
> look as authentic. when the flat/matte black starts to wear down or
> fade, and with all the dirt it will accumulate, it just looks like a dull grey
> to me on most cars.
>
> i just think the bluesmobile looks better and more authentic with the
> gloss paint and a heavy coat of DIRT! lol.
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/5367-painting-qs/#entry75684

[spanks79]

Thanks Arthur, the theory behind using gloss is sound and I am tempted to go that way. However, my car is currently sprayed gloss black, but it is a low quality paint and sprayed with out a lot of effort made to get it to lay down smooth and shiny, so as a result it looks satin, and in my opinion it looks pretty screen accurate. I will just have to spray a few test parts and see how the satin looks. Once again I look at Blusmbls car and it is satin, but still has a fair amount of gloss to it, at least in pictures.
Here is a teaser of my tape line (and some shiny white paint!)

[sigmfsk]

Jun 16, 2012 19:56:06 GMT -5 spanks79 said:

...my car is currently sprayed gloss black, but it is a low quality paint and sprayed with out a lot of effort made to get it to lay down smooth and shiny, so as a result it looks satin, and in my opinion it looks pretty screen accurate...

Oh wow, I didn't even know there was a thing such as satin. I'm a paint n00b.

I see:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloss_%28paint%29
> Paint and other finishes come in a variety of finish gloss levels, which
> correspond to different levels of specular reflection.
>
> Some common names for levels of gloss include: flat, matte, eggshell,
> satin, silk, semi-gloss, high gloss. These terms are not standardized,
> and not all manufacturers use all these terms.
>
> One manufacturer[which?] measures gloss as percentages (at an
> unspecified angle) and gives:
>
> Flat (1–9% gloss)
> Low Sheen (10–25% gloss)
> Eggshell (26–40% gloss)
> Semi Gloss (41–69% gloss)
> Gloss (70–89% gloss)

The parts catalog talks about Satin and "S.G" (which I guess is semi-gloss) for interior colors:



and talks about Dupont Lucite, Centari and Dulux for the exterior:



Then I found this page:
> Buy high-impact Chrysler paint colors using the original factory color
> code to create the same product as was laid on Mopar muscle cars
> when they were first offered. Visit the Website for Moparts listed in our
> Resources section to view and reference paint codes that will allow you
> to purchase high-impact Mopar paint from Dupont. High-impact paints
> come in three options: Lucite®, Centari® and Dulux®.

Read more: How to Paint a Mopar Car | eHow.com www.ehow.com/how_4684788_paint-mopar-car.html#ixzz1y35Yx9WC

But I couldn't find the reference page it was talking about.

In the fictional universe of the bluesmobile, I'm guessing it had:
Eggshell white: Lucite 4996L, Centari 4996A, Dulux 4996D
Black: Lucite 99L, Centari 99A, Dulux 93-005

Here's an interesting blurb on the white:

------------------

"Eggshell" is what they called it. Yeah, pretty standard across the board stuff. They also used that same white on accent lines, etc etc etc.


interior is same code as exterior for that year, I believe. All "4996" and diff letter for manufacturer.

W1 - Eggshell White
Lucite® Code - 4996L
"Centari" Code - 4996A
Dulux® Code - 4996D

Cantari is DuPont. Here is the MSDS for it ( acrylic enamel)
www.chemcas.com/msds112/cas/1495/78-93-3_108-88-3_8006-64-2_1330-20-7_123-86-4.asp

If you go to your local auto shop ( NOT autozone or the like) they should be able to get you some. It's 70's stuff. When it spray it will have a bit of orange peel to it. Just add a dash more thinner when you spray it is all. Should be fine.

------------------
from
www.moparstyle.com/forums/classic-mopar-muscle-technical-q/18598-white-interior-paint.html


That thread also points to this page:
www.tcpglobal.com/autocolorlibrary/default.aspx
where you can enter Dodge / 1974 and see the available colors and order paint of these types:

Acrylic Enamel
Acrylic Urethane
Acrylic Lacquer
Urethane Basecoat

Wow, there's a lot to learn. For the black/white c-pillar dividing line on the door jamb, it looks like we have no pic of it in the movie. And we have no pic of it on a movie blumo outside the movie (like a 35mm extra's shot). So whatever we do would seem screen accurate acceptable.

It seems to me that blusmbl's jamb line points down quite a bit:


and yours points down just a bit:


while the CPD car points up a bit:


I know there are all sorts of problems with trying to assess the true angle with all the curves and such. Maybe you can see what I'm thinking about.

What do you think about the CPD scheme vs. your current taped scheme? Is it the same? Is my "CPD pointing up" assessment just wacky?

your friend in paint planning,
arthur

[spanks79]

This is an interesting quote

If you go to your local auto shop ( NOT autozone or the like) they should be able to get you some. It's 70's stuff. When it spray it will have a bit of orange peel to it. Just add a dash more thinner when you spray it is all. Should be fine.

As from this link
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/5367-painting-qs/#entry76681
Josephblues (creator and former owner of my car) states he used a low quality gloss black thinned pretty heavily, and it does have quite a bit of texture to it (orange peal). I would say that it is pretty close to a satin /semi-gloss finish. And I would say those terms could be used interchangeably.

This is the paint I bought www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-CSUMUP312/ I used the same brand for the white as well, just gloss. The gloss black I have was just some NAPA brand stuff I acquired during a labor trade deal a couple years back.

Blusmbl used Eastwood 21855ZP Rat Rod flat black www.eastwood.com/rat-rod-flat-black-paint-kit.html its probably the same as the summit stuff. if anything the Eastwood paint looks flatter in the sample picture.

As for the paint line, you are correct it is hard to get a good feel for the direction of the line across the body contour. In my opinion the "chip" line looks as close to horizontal as you could get. I believe the tape line on my car is currently angled down. My plan is for the door jam line to be horizontal, we were more focused on the spacing on the body for this pic so the tape in the jam just fell where it did. We will be spending some more time with it this week.

[sigmfsk]

Jun 17, 2012 10:54:06 GMT -5 spanks79 said:

As for the paint line, you are correct it is hard to get a good feel for the direction of the line across the body contour. In my opinion the "chip" line looks as close to horizontal as you could get. I believe the tape line on my car is currently angled down. My plan is for the door jam line to be horizontal, we were more focused on the spacing on the body for this pic so the tape in the jam just fell where it did. We will be spending some more time with it this week.

"chip" line = the line on the CPD black & white photo, right? The CHiP Monacos kept the chrome strip.

I'm guessing that the dividing line on CHiP monacos, the CPD b&w pic, and Marin County were all at the same location:



3/8" down, in line with the top of the chrome strip.

And it does seem that the line extends horizontally through the door jamb, so it would look something like the red line here:



but I see in this pic that the door jamb black/white line is higher than the c-pillar black/white line:



so it would seem to be more like this:


That fall-a-part car has a non-factory hollywood hack paint job on the lower b-pillar, which makes me think twice about trying to duplicate everything in this scene. But the rear door-jamb black/white area seems reasonable.

And it seems to provide a good example showing how a 1/2" drop looks on the c-pillar. The dividing line looks like it extends about 1/2 way into the 1" drop area:

[sigmfsk]

I thought this was a good pic showing the white/black line around outside of the window frame (just split it where the weatherstripping goes). For the inside, just split it where the window channel goes.

[sigmfsk]

I can't tell for sure if the 74 Monaco CPD cars had the chrome strip along the c-pillar. But even if they had the silver strip and it blended in with the white top, the following pictures show how a black/white c-pillar dividing line would look at the lower-edge of where the chrome strip is (because one can compare against the chrome strip on the upper edge of the rear door).



from
copcardotcom.fotki.com/photographs_of_greg/chicago-police-vehicles/chicago-police-vehi/page10.html