Spanks and his buddy Jeff came to visit, and I barely have any parts left; they cleaned me out! Had a great time - lots of stories and laughs, and they got to give the Fury motor setup the once-over.
Humms and harrs, and eventually Spanks said that it didn't look that weird. It was a little unusual, but nothing that would indicate it wouldn't work. He pointed out that I might have clearance problems between the driver valve cover and the power booster, but I think I'm OK due to my planned hydroboost setup.
Here's the info from my thread on the BBC archives, starting around here:
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/8327-theres-a-new-marin-county-sheriff-in-town/page__st__160#entry118329AZ Blues has some more info over there with his experiences, so check it out for all the info. I'll copy the highlights here:
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I'm in a little bit of a power boost pickle.
I spoke with the motor guys and I learned that my motor won't make enough vacuum to run a power booster. So it seems that my options are:
1) manual brakes
2) vacuum pump to run power booster
3) replace power booster with hydroboost
And I'm thinking that I'll always hate driving if I pick 1. And if I have to add on some ridiculous contraption, I'll be happier with #3 over #2, presuming it works.
The Dart Swinger and Cadillac I reference here:
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/bluesmobiles/8260-make-your-bluesmobile-handle-2.html#post123218both use hydroboost setups. Dart is clearly a "hydratech" brand model (pic 1).
The Cadillac (pic 2)
is a hydroboost of some sort - doesn't look like a "hydratech" brand.
I found them via the Swartz Performance link from the testimonial page at hydratech
hydratechbraking.com/testimonials_old/pic 3 is of a 69 Camaro with a hydratech
www.lateral-g.net/campbell/It's only 937 HP, but I guess that's enough to go pickup the groceries.
pic 4 is another nice Camaro with a hydratech
www.lateral-g.net/gulbransonfrom:
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/8327-theres-a-new-marin-county-sheriff-in-town/page__st__160#entry118329---------------------
[> indicate text earlier from AZ Blues]
I see that the HydraTech kits come with hoses with the ends for the hydroboost alrady crimped on, and the user cuts the lines to length and crimps the ends for the power steering gear and pump:
www.hydratechbraking.com/hose_fittings.htmlThere's a video here about installing the fittings, although it didn't make clear that part of the work was already done
v8tvshow.com/content/view/125/73/Looks similar to standard AN fitting installation.
> The booster takes a little bit of getting used to, because it is very powerful and
> does not have the mushy feeling associated with most vacuum boosters. They are
> a true one-toe system no matter what they are installed in.
That seems to be a universal description:
> ...you need to watch and make sure that you don't kiss the steering wheel, and
> that he has to peel his eyeballs off the windshield.
forums.corvetteforum.com/1544228048-post10.html> It's very important to use an appropriate master cylinder, because one with a
> piston that is too small will have too much pressure, and with the fast-acting nature
> of the booster, will try to toss you through the windshield if you hit the brakes too
> hard. Believe me on that one. In most systems, a piston size of about 1-1/8" works
> well.
I see this thread:
www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?29173-C6-Z06-brakes-Hydratech-Booster-and-Master-Cyl.-stalking about hydratech recommending 1 1/8" and a guy going to try a 1" anyway. No updates on how that worked out.
I'll keep you posted on what they recommend for my setup.
> Many systems also need an adjustable proportioning valve to the rear line to cut
> the pressure on rear drum brakes, so they don't prematurely lock up. Not a problem
> if you convert to rear disc, a recommended upgrade to a heavy car.
Upgrading to rear discs wasn't a priority for me, but with swapping out the c-clip axles for bolt-in axles, it kind of made the swap to discs an easy upgrade. So I'll have a disc/disc setup, with a disc/disc master cylinder, and proportioning valve.
> One important tip, which you are doing but that anyone considering Hydro-Boost
> should heed, is that if you convert to this system, EVERYTHING associated with the
> P/S system, including the steering box, has to be replaced with competently
> rebuilt parts - and all lines MUST be new. Everywhere. P/S lines can look OK on
> the outside, but they wear internally and break down inside first, shedding little flakes
> of rubber which wreak havoc with the many screens and fine passages inside
> the Hydro-Boost unit, so you start off all new.
A good point. All that will be new. After the bead blasting, it's almost cheaper to install new stuff than re-install the old stuff.
> Ordinarily, I'd just suggest you go with a less radical cam so you can make vacuum
> to run a regular booster, but you seem to have your heart set on a fairly radical
> 550+ HP RB motor.
And how!
from
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/8327-theres-a-new-marin-county-sheriff-in-town/page__st__160#entry118356-------------------
Jim from hydratech received my power booster,
He said they could hook me up, and their best match would be a custom job that was similar to their Chrysler e-body kit:
www.hydratechbraking.com/Mopar_E_Body.htmlNotice that their kit
> Eliminates the factory stamped steel firewall re-inforcement plate
On the phone, he referred to it as a "filler plate". You can see it in the picture of my booster.
pic 2
is a good reference pic from
www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showpost.php?p=91158&postcount=7> The backing plate is for firewall reinforcement, otherwise the firewall will flex
> under braking.
On the phone, Jim asked if I had a particular desire to keep the filler plate, and I said no, and he said that was standard (for their kit to replace the power booster and filler plate).
But looking at pictures, it seems that their billet mounting plate does not have the same surface area mounting as the original filler plate (pic 3).
I wonder if its that way just for looks (no mounting plate looks "cooler" than a huge mounting plate)? I suppose that if this unit requires less power on the pedal to operate the brakes, then someone may not be pushing the pedal hard enough to bend the firewall, so the backing plate may not be needed. But if Ma Mopar decided that a backing plate was needed to keep the firewall from flexing under extreme foot stomping, I'd rather like to keep it (or have the new billet mounting plate have the same mounting locations).
He recommended the new 2-bolt Chrysler master cylinder, 1 1/8" bore, used from 83-93. They have it with either a black or white reservoir (pic 4).
He said that a 1 1/8" bore MC was a setup that has worked well for them. 1" was way too small. I asked about 1 1/4" and he said it was doable, but 1 1/8" was more common and they had good feedback on it. He gave the following examples of how much the brake pedal would typically move with a 1 1/8" bore:
0.5" : backing out of driveway then stopping
1.0" : stopping normally
2.0" : "climbing all over" the brakes
I'm thinking of using their kit, but KEEPING the backing plate. I think it will look fine clean and painted. Please let me know if you have any thoughts on it.
from
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/8327-theres-a-new-marin-county-sheriff-in-town/page__st__160#entry118548-------------------------------
I got my setup back from Hydratech. I'm pretty happy with it so far.
pic 1: with backing plate installed.
Recall that hydratech wanted to make the unit so that it would NOT reuse the backing plate. But I found that the Monaco (unlike their standard a/b/e body lineup) uses the backing plate to help support a firewall to fender bracket.
So they made this model such that it is designed to be used with the backing plate (adjusting the standard aluminum block thickness and pushrod length as necessary).
pic 2: showing back without backing plate
pic 3: front
pic 4:
The only important dimension that looked different than stock was the width of the pushrod receptacle that mates to the clevis on the brake pedal was narrower than stock. Spacers can take care of that, although it wouldn't hurt to simply make a sturdier piece that was the correct size.
My paperwork doesn't show this as a 1974 Dodge Monaco kit. It is listed as a 70-74 Mopar E Body (71-74 B Body) Level III Hydraulic Brake Assist System with PS line set (Mopar spec MC pushrod) Hybrid Model.
from
www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/topic/8327-theres-a-new-marin-county-sheriff-in-town/page__st__200#entry121120----
I mentioned [that pushrod receptacle width issue] in an e-mail to Hydratech, and they responded:
> ...the brake pedal rod adapter is specifically designed to be self aligning to the
> connection on the pedal, and we actually do not specify that any shims / washers be
> used (as they can induce linkage binding)...
Instead of
> we do not specify that shims be used
I thought they might mean
> we specify that shims not be used
but I can't find that anywhere in the documentation. Anyway, it looks like it's good to go as-is.
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Since I got the Spanks (and Jeff) "It's crazy enough that it just might work nod of approval", I had no more need of the mockup, so after they departed, I worked on the next stage of planning, the gullwing roof tilter: