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Post by spanks79 on Mar 25, 2015 8:21:56 GMT -5
I've been wanting to start this thread for a while now that my car is getting close to roadworthy. However in recent light of oldcigaretts fire loss I think it's a timly topic. And for the record, I am not a fan of insurance companies...I see them as a necessary evil, I have had two substantial claims in my lifetime and came out on the loosing end both times.
What is everyone doing for insurance? Are you using standard auto policy's or going with a specialized collector car insurance like Hagerdy or Grundy? I have done some research and found the two products look similar but the wording is different.
As some might immagine I have a fair amount of money wrapped up in my car but on the grand scheme of things it's not a ton of money. Put it this way, adding up all of my receipts for parts plus the initial car purchase I still couldn't have bought a 2015 base model v6 Charger. I think that's pretty good for a frame off restoration. That does not include any of my labor, shop supplies or labor of friends and employees. For insurance purposes, or replacement value, I could easily prove that I have at least 800 man hours in the car at even a modest shop rate of $50 an hour (way less than my current posted shop rate) I have $40,000 in labor alone!
Obviously I did not get into this hobby because I saw it as an investment, but how do you protect what you have. An insurance company sees a 40 year old car that's worth a couple grand. I see a super rare piece of history that is damn near irreplaceable. I know that just because it's rare, doesn't mean it's valuable.
I have State Farm for my normal car insurance. My agent came and looked at the car and wrote a policy that covers my up to $20,000. I wanted this just incase I have an issue like oldcigarette. Notice I say "up to". I read that as, if I have a total loss, State Farm will cover me "up to" $20000. Meaning if they calculate or determine in their mind the car is worth less than $20000, I won't get that.
I talked to Hagerdy and they have "guaranteed value" policy's. Meaning if you insure for $20,000 and have a total loss, they guarantee a $20k payout in exchange for your car. Sounds like a better deal to me. They also claim to have a staff of people that will help search out and locate parts and qualified labor to return the car to pre accident condition in the event of a crash.
For $20,000 of coverage State Farm wants $135 a year for their "up to" policy, Hagerdy wants $250-275 for their "guaranteed value" policy. I honestly feel like $20,000 is to low for a theft, fire or other complete loss but that is what I am using for this comparison. I don't think State Farm would go much higher, however Hagerdy will go with whatever value you want, you just pay accordingly.
Just curious to what others are using. Also, from an insurance standpoint, replacment value, what is a nice Bluesmobile worth?
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Post by 58hemifury on Mar 25, 2015 8:48:56 GMT -5
I've been wanting to start this thread for a while now that my car is getting close to roadworthy. However in recent light of oldcigaretts fire loss I think it's a timly topic. And for the record, I am not a fan of insurance companies...I see them as a necessary evil, I have had two substantial claims in my lifetime and came out on the loosing end both times. What is everyone doing for insurance? Are you using standard auto policy's or going with a specialized collector car insurance like Hagerdy or Grundy? I have done some research and found the two products look similar but the wording is different. As some might immagine I have a fair amount of money wrapped up in my car but on the grand scheme of things it's not a ton of money. Put it this way, adding up all of my receipts for parts plus the initial car purchase I still couldn't have bought a 2015 base model v6 Charger. I think that's pretty good for a frame off restoration. That does not include any of my labor, shop supplies or labor of friends and employees. For insurance purposes, or replacement value, I could easily prove that I have at least 800 man hours in the car at even a modest shop rate of $50 an hour (way less than my current posted shop rate) I have $40,000 in labor alone! Obviously I did not get into this hobby because I saw it as an investment, but how do you protect what you have. An insurance company sees a 40 year old car that's worth a couple grand. I see a super rare piece of history that is damn near irreplaceable. I know that just because it's rare, doesn't mean it's valuable. I have State Farm for my normal car insurance. My agent came and looked at the car and wrote a policy that covers my up to $20,000. I wanted this just incase I have an issue like oldcigarette. Notice I say "up to". I read that as, if I have a total loss, State Farm will cover me "up to" $20000. Meaning if they calculate or determine in their mind the car is worth less than $20000, I won't get that. I talked to Hagerdy and they have "guaranteed value" policy's. Meaning if you insure for $20,000 and have a total loss, they guarantee a $20k payout in exchange for your car. Sounds like a better deal to me. They also claim to have a staff of people that will help search out and locate parts and qualified labor to return the car to pre accident condition in the event of a crash. For $20,000 of coverage State Farm wants $135 a year for their "up to" policy, Hagerdy wants $250-275 for their "guaranteed value" policy. I honestly feel like $20,000 is to low for a theft, fire or other complete loss but that is what I am using for this comparison. I don't think State Farm would go much higher, however Hagerdy will go with whatever value you want, you just pay accordingly. Just curious to what others are using. Also, from an insurance standpoint, replacment value, what is a nice Bluesmobile worth? I would talk to Hagerty and only Hagerty and see what the maximum they would insure the car for (Monacos are only worth about $3,500 in "the books" but we all know Bluesmobiles are worth a lot more). Paying "up to" is scary, after a loss you might get $3,500 dollars, I used to work for Allstate and they used to use the same valuation tools as State Farm, fine for your modern car, dangerous on a Monaco, especially a Bluesmobile. I would; A-Only use Hagerty, B-Get a professional Appraisal, C-Keep all of your receipts and labor hours logged and a copy to each. I was for years a licensed adjuster, my conscience was getting to me because trust me, no insurance company wants to pay you anything, they will find any loop hole to not pay you, and they will pay as little as possible. Hagerty is the best for modified (and stock for that matter) classics, ESPECIALLY IF YOU PLAN ON EVER DRIVING IT. |
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Post by spanks79 on Mar 25, 2015 9:07:03 GMT -5
That is exactly what I am afraid of with State Farm. Actually I'm not afraid of it because I KNOW that is what would happen. I am assuming from most of your posts that you are in the collision repair business. My dad owned a body shop for 30 years, I ran it myself for the last 2 years of its existance, but based on my recommendation, we closed the body shop in effort to expand and enhance our mechanical and classic car services in 2008. The insurance companies made it impossible for a small shop to be profitable. We actually started suing ins companies for unfair claims practices, denying labor, refusing paint and material charges, forcing aftermarket parts and so on. We won every case but it didn't stop the unfair practices. But that's a whole different topic.
As a guy that owns old cars and a guy from the industry, for insurance purposes, not retail, what do you think a nice Bluesmobile is worth?
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Post by 58hemifury on Mar 25, 2015 10:08:16 GMT -5
As a guy that owns old cars and a guy from the industry, for insurance purposes, not retail, what do you think a nice Bluesmobile is worth? I'm not a good judge of that, it's hard to say because so few "nice" ones ever change hands, it's more of a "what would it cost to replace?" type of scenario, my car was nice but nowhere near done to the extent of what your car is. You've done a $25,000 restoration on your car, mine was a decent repaint and a '74 nose and trim conversion on a rust free low mileage car, no comparison, that's why I recommended receipts, hours logged, and an appraiser that is reputable, it's the only way you'll cover your ass. From what I've seen, $25K isn't out of line for the work you've done, but I don't know if they'll cover it that high. And as far as I'm concerned, and I've talked to a lot of classic car insurance companies, I will only use Hagerty, even if they cost a little more. |
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Post by AZBlues on Mar 25, 2015 11:45:14 GMT -5
Spanks,
You may not be quite up to new V6 Charger money yet, but when your car is done - and you total up parts and labor, I think you'll be right at Charger Hellcat money. Not to be alarmist, but that might make it more involved to insure fairly. An insurance company will have to understand that in the event of a total loss, the only way to get a comparable replacement would be to build another one from scratch, and cover accordingly. In the world of one million+ dollar collector cars, Ridler cars, historical cars, etc, there has to be a way to get this.
All of my collector cars are insured through Heacock Classic, underwritten by American Home. I've been using them for nearly 20 years; since it was Parish, then Parish-Heacock, and now this. Good claim experience when some dumpy phone-head hit my '65 Falcon Sprint convertible, (1 of 300) no other claims as yet. The Monaco is insured for a minimum amount, but I'll change that when it hits the road around fall.
-AZB
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Post by spanks79 on Mar 25, 2015 12:15:07 GMT -5
As a guy that owns old cars and a guy from the industry, for insurance purposes, not retail, what do you think a nice Bluesmobile is worth? I'm not a good judge of that, it's hard to say because so few "nice" ones ever change hands, it's more of a "what would it cost to replace?" type of scenario, my car was nice but nowhere near done to the extent of what your car is. You've done a $25,000 restoration on your car, mine was a decent repaint and a '74 nose and trim conversion on a rust free low mileage car, no comparison, that's why I recommended receipts, hours logged, and an appraiser that is reputable, it's the only way you'll cover your ass. From what I've seen, $25K isn't out of line for the work you've done, but I don't know if they'll cover it that high. And as far as I'm concerned, and I've talked to a lot of classic car insurance companies, I will only use Hagerty, even if they cost a little more. Value is always a touchy subject. The intent of this thread was not to be specifically about my car, just these cars in general, because they are all worth a lot more than a typical mid 70's sedan. But you are correct, my car is a $25k restoration. Honestly if I had a customer come to me and ask me to do this project, for it to be PROFITABLE, not just keep the shop busy, but a money making job at industry accepted margins, I would estimate between $50-$60k. We all know that one of these car will never be worth that but that is what my honest "cost of replacement" would be. Am I going to insure it for that? No. I would venture to say most all of our cars would value out somewhere between 2 and 3 times what the retail market value is. AZ, your car isn't far behind mine, and there are others out there. Blusmbl car is, Country Bunker and legendary's cars are well on their way, even your HOB car is going to hold a special value. In my opinion none of these cars mentioned should be insured for less than $20k. Adam, I don't know what you sold your car for but even as a small block Royal convert, its worth well over the insurance range of $3500. I'm eventually going to go with Hagerty. |
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Post by 58hemifury on Mar 25, 2015 18:42:33 GMT -5
When I was throwing the $25k price out there it was a generic number that I feel if you were to sell your car, say on ebay, might be a realistic price. As you stated you have over $40k in labor at $50 an hour plus parts, materials, ect. If you were to prove to Hagerty that you have this money in this car they may cover replacement value. And remember when you insure it that 440s were an optional engine so your car is stock, not modified according to there policies. I think I pay about $300 a year for $50k coverage on my amphicar.
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Post by oldcigarette on Mar 26, 2015 22:25:31 GMT -5
FWIW I just have nationwide. They still haven't got back to me yet but some salvage place called me today wanting to pick up the car :/. Whatever guess I have to call them tommorow and see wtf is going on.
I think I'll look into this Hagerty thing; I've got a super clean ram charger I totally restored that I know I'll never get a good price on. For the LTD the guy told me they max out around $5500.
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Post by yellowrr on Dec 12, 2015 10:39:17 GMT -5
I have used Hagerty for my collector cars for about 10 or 15 years now and have had excellent service from them. I've only had one claim through them on my 71 Road Runner, but they handled it quickly, professionally, and extremely thoroughly. BUT their one provision that I can't do for the Bluesmobile (at the moment) is that it has to be "stored in a closed & locked garage", and they politely said that they couldn't insure it. (We just moved into a house with only a one car garage - for now. Plans are already in the works for a 2 or 3 car shop in the back yard.) There are cheaper collector car insurance companies out there, but most don't let you actually USE the car or it "must always be within sight when it is out of the garage". Crazy and impossible to agree to. Hagerty understands that you might want to stop off for dinner on the way home from an event or that you must walk away from the car at a show, but they also expect you to take reasonable care in protecting your own car. So it goes both ways. When I insured my Road Runner with them, I sent them a list of all of the modifications that I made to the car and what I and some trusted friends thought that the car was "worth" along with a lot of photos of all 4 sides, the interior, the trunk, the engine compartment, etc... and they agreed to the number that I put on it. Did the same thing when insuring my 49 Dodge hot rod truck (although that one has probably more tied up in labor than anything, I didn't go crazy in insuring it for a large sum of money. I figured that if it were a total loss that at least I'd get the money back for the shell of the truck, the chassis that I bought, the engine & trans, etc.) Give Hagerty a call and discuss it with them. Ask a lot of questions. They're used to it!  |
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