driver door pocket

[sigmfsk]

see:
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=reunion&thread=48&post=307

Thoughts:
Only available in 1974, and only on Monacos without power windows.

[tk826]

I'm not sure where it fits in with the above theory, but...

I have photos of at least two 1974's, with power windows, and also
a door pocket.

[sigmfsk]

Aug 12, 2011 22:01:52 GMT -5 tk826 said:

I'm not sure where it fits in the above theory, but...

I have photos of at least two 1974's, with power windows, and also
a door pocket.

Ahhhhh, that is a good piece of the puzzle. We're all working on theories, and LV proposed the theory that his car didn't have a door pocket because it had power windows, and the power window motor took up the same interior door real-estate as the door pocket.

That theory sounded good to me, but your having pics of 74 with power windows and door pocket changes that.

I'm thinking that LV's car may be different because of its build date.
It has:

75 headliner
75 passenger inner fender
75 driver lower door panel (without pocket)

So we have a 74 that's like a 75.
And we also saw a 76 that's like a 75 (that nice red 76 Monaco for sale that had seat-belts like a 75 with lower retractor, that had a build date in late 1975).

Maybe it would make sense to list specifics:
74 : no-hump passenger inner fender
75+ : hump passenger inner fender

and then simply caveat everything with:
for all or most options, a late build year X car could have X+1 configuration.
for all or most options, an early build year X car could have X-1 configuration.

your friend in working on a theory to best outline our theories,
arthur

[Lord Vadus]

I misspoke. It's a combination of the power windows, which bump out the power locks into the pocket area; think of the altered connecting rod for the power lock running down into that area and interfering. Maybe you had to have power windows and locks? That, or my power locks are installed incorrectly, yet function perfectly?

Also, here's a picture of the door panels in my green '74. It's very similar to my brougham, but with the pocket. I'd also like to ask about carpeting on the door panel, as my brougham has it, but my Custom doesn't. Anyone else have panels where the lower section is carpeted?

[sigmfsk]

Aug 13, 2011 20:56:13 GMT -5 Lord Vadus said:

I'd also like to ask about carpeting on the door panel, as my brougham has it, but my Custom doesn't. Anyone else have panels where the lower section is carpeted?

Hi LV,
I thought that the carpeted lower section was a brougham-specific feature thought that all brougham's had it. This is where the for-sale archived BBC info would be useful.

I see Dave Weaver's blumo (brougham) doesn't have lower carpeting:



but maybe he removed it to make it more blumo like. Or used different lower door panels.


I don't have a clear shot of Dave's interior rear doors. I see your front doors have carpeting:



And I'm guessing the rears also.

Ccole's blumo has non-carpeting on the front panels, but carpeting on the rear. I've wondered about that.



your friend in hoping TK has some pics that explain the carpeting situation, and see if he has any of cars with power windows and power door locks,
arthur

[sigmfsk]

I checked the parts catalog, and it shows that all models use the same lower door panel, other than the 2-door hardtop.

And each of those panels are "w/ Stowage compartment on left trim panel"



The 75 parts catalog doesn't list the stowage compartment



LV, you wrote that on your car
> ...power windows, which bump out the power locks into the
> pocket area; think of the altered connecting rod for the power
> lock running down into that area and interfering.

And that maybe your
> ...power locks are installed incorrectly, yet function perfectly?

I am willing to accept the axioms:
1) your 74 has a lower door panel without a door pocket
2) your car came with factory door locks
3) your car came with factory power windows
4) your door lock setup takes up real-estate that a door pocket would use
5) your car was produced at the very tail end of the production run
6) your car has two features of which we have no evidence of existing in other 74s (passenger inner fender hump, and no door pocket).

I think a likely explanation of the fender is:
Your fender is a "75" model, and your car got the upgrade even though it was a 74 model.

I think a likely explanation of the no-door-pocket is:
In 1975, Ma Mopar went to no door pocket (for whatever reason - maybe there was some NHTSA safety problem with having a door pocket). As part of this change, Ma Mopar re-configured the power door lock / power window setup to take advantage of the enhanced door real-estate. Your car got the 75 upgrade, including door pocket, power door locks, and power windows.

But maybe power locks / power windows always required a no-pocket panel. It's strange that it's not listed in the 74 catalog. Maybe it was impossible to get that option until 1975 when they redid the door panels, but your was able to get the option in late 1974.

An a related note, the 74 parts catalog page above shows the Plymouth and Dodge can use the same upper panel, so a no-wood-trim Plymouth Fury cop panel is identical that used on a Monaco.

your friend in panellating,
arthur

[tk826]

So far, carpeted panels seem to be Brougham specific, but yet still optional.

Based solely on the photos that I've looked at so far, it seems that as the years progressed
carpet became more and more common on the lower Brougham door panels.


I'll keep looking and see if that changes.

[sigmfsk]

King-of-the-hill has a door pocket:



It's a Canadian "Monaco Special"



Notice "Monaco Special" fender emblem

The Canadian Dodge brochure says that the door pocket is standard for all models BUT the Monaco Special, for which a pocket is not available (the Monaco Special was the lowest price class).


It's not surprising that they'd provide a free upgrade to king-of-the-hill. If they were out of pocketless panels I can see them throwing on a pocket panel.

What I find interesting is that whenever they made the brochure (presumably in 1973), Ma Mopar was at least already thinking about a pocketless panel, and it seems solely to provide a less cool product to the lowest price class.

your friend in working through the puzzle of pocketness,
arthur

[sigmfsk]

I think the current assessment is that the driver door pocket was available only on 1974 Monacos (never 75-77 Monacos)

and never on a Fury.
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=details&thread=466&post=2734

Some 1974 Monacos were not supposed to have pockets (Canadian Monaco Specials), although king-of-the-hill did:
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=details&thread=162&post=739

LV's 1974 Monaco doesn't have a door pocket. We thought earlier that it may have been due to pockets being prohibited on a car with power windows, but TK found a counterexample to that. I'm guessing that LV's no-pocket was because it was made late in the model year and that was one of the 1975 features it got (similar to the foam backed headliner).

[following info copied from the Morphing thread]
It looks like pockets could be the usual "strap" style:


or "strapless" style:


which is what I think is being shown in the movie when Elwood opens the door at the orphanage:



I haven't seen a Monaco with the strapless door panel. I'm guessing it was only found on very early 1974 Monacos and was phased out because the system wasn't as reliable as expected. If anyone has any info on what/when this door pocket was used, let us know. It's a bit of a mystery (like sedan ceiling mounted rear-view mirrors and detachable shoulder harness seat belts).

thanks,
arthur

[sigmfsk]

Jan 8, 2012 13:38:24 GMT -5 sigmfsk said:

It's a bit of a mystery (like sedan ceiling mounted rear-view mirrors and detachable shoulder harness seat belts).

Same, but trickier, I think.

We believe that some 1974 Monaco sedans came from the factory with ceiling mounted rear-view mirrors. We see them in the bluesmobile movie, and Huey's vouched for them in real-life, saying special order cars could get them:
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=details&thread=309&post=1890
It turns out the mirror in question is a rear-view mirror as used on 1974 Monaco station wagons.

We believe that some 1974 Monaco sedans came from the factory with detachable shoulder harness seatbelts for the outboard passengers. We see them in the bluesmobile movie, and have cars documented with them, including 440RULEZs ex-CHP, and even this 1975 ex-CHP:
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=cars&action=display&thread=261

It turns out that the detachable hardware in question is the same as a 1973 Chrysler Imperial sedan (I have a writeup pending on this, but still have some work to do on this first). So a blumo set could be cobbled together with pieces from that, along with the retractors from a standard 1974 Monaco.

But the strapless door pocket looks like a unique part. It wasn't used on other body styles of 1974 Monacos. And it wasn't used on any 1973 Mopar cars - as far as I can tell by looking through 1973 brochures here:
www.oldcarbrochures.com

Here's the parts catalog showing that all 1974 Monacos used the same front driver lower door panel, other than 2-door hardtops:



I thought maybe the 2-door hartdtop would have a strapless pocket, but the actual pocket is the same on all models, so I'm guessing the difference in door panels for the 2-door hardtop is simply the shape of the entire panel and nothing to do with the pocket:


Lord Vadus' sedan is the earliest build-date 1974 Monaco that we have on the board. And his has a strap, so the blumos must have been early early models. Did CHP get the first cars off the line?

So:
rear-view mirror : can find a replacement
detachable-seat belts : can make a replacement
door pocket : find an actual original

Note, to get a pocket, one wouldn't need to find and buy an original. We just need to find it and take some pictures. If we had a clear picture of an original, we could make a replacement.

your friend in research,
arthur

[sigmfsk]

I looked through all my brochures at www.74monaco.com and found these pics:



That second pic makes clear that the rectangular area on the outside of the pocket isn't a hole (because we can't see the map though it).

From all the pics, the rectangular area looks like a raised area. And we now know that the area is part of the actual pocket flap.

Here's the inside bracket on my strap door pocket:


Notice the two screws. I'm guessing that this pic:


shows a magnet between the two screws that held the door closed.

So all I need to do to create a door like this is to remove the snap:



Somehow fill the hole for the snap and create a raised area, and stick some high powered magnets on the back to hold it shut.

your friend in talking through a plan,
arthur

[tk826]

Are you sure that is a magnet?
Could it instead be one half of a snap closure?

[sigmfsk]

Jan 15, 2012 16:50:31 GMT -5 tk826 said:

Are you sure that is a magnet?
Could it instead be one half of a snap closure?

Oh right, it could be. I was just thinking in my head that a magnet was most likely, but it could have been half a snap.

The snap on a standard strap pocket is a "rivet back" with the neck that goes all the way through the flap and peened on the rear side. So there's a hole in the flap that you can see on the inside. On the rare strapless design, to keep the outside of the flap smooth, I think Ma Mopar would have simply glued something to the inside of the flap, and a magnet seemed more likely than a snap.

Maybe we'll never know. I guess they glued a magnet or a snap to the inside of the flap, and it kept falling off, so they replaced the design with an outward facing rivet snap and strap.

I think if I duplicate the outside of the flap per the advertising materials, I've done the best I can. The only person I've found who's ever seen or heard of a strapless pocket is cbodymopar, who recalls having a strapless pocket car years ago and thinking it odd and maybe an aftermarket addition (but he doesn't have any pics or any other recollections of it). Those are long odds on finding one now.

I can't be sure that the Elwood orphanage blumo has a strapless pocket as shown in the advertising brochures, but I'm thinking it is the most reasonable explanation for no strap. Although we can't see the detail for the raised "rectangular area" in the blu-ray, I think we'd see a hint of an outside facing snap if it was present.

your friend in pockets,
arthur

[sigmfsk]

Here:
bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=sedans&thread=388&post=3084
Steam posts this pic:



It looked like a micro-pocket until I realized that this was a 2-door and the actual door panel was longer.

That same post also has this pic:

of a 74 without a pocket (and with power windows) - the same setup as Lord Vadus cruiser. If a 74 power window car could come with a pocket, it would be good to try and get a pic of one.

[tk826]

Here's one...