fender tag moving/swapping/duplicating

[tk826]

One of the downers is that the "previous seller" felt the need to pry off the original DK/ police and special mask fender tags from the car.

Unfortunately, the only reason I can think of for doing such a thing is that they went onto one of the other cars that he sold.

Ghost,
If you don't have it already, I have a photo of the original tags, in case you would like to have new ones made.

They should have rightfully (and probably legally) stayed on the car.

[Ghostbluesman (Ghostsoldier)]

Mar 5, 2013 4:38:31 GMT -5 tk826 said:

Ghost,
If you don't have it already, I have a photo of the original tags, in case you would like to have new ones made.

They should have rightfully (and probably legally) stayed on the car.

Damian,
Yes, I would most definitely like to have a photo of the original tag (you can send it via PM or email, whichever is easier); I feel like my car is missing it's 'birth certificate', or the like, so it would be cool to see it's lineage...

And, just as important...where can someone have those tags replicated?

Rob

[58hemifury]

And, just as important...where can someone have those tags replicated?

Rob[/quote]

There is a guy who advertises in Hemming's Motor News that reproduces fender tags for Mopars, he most likely advertises in Mopar magazines too.
You need to show proof of ownership to have them made last I knew.
Adam

[Ghostbluesman (Ghostsoldier)]

Well, I've got the title with my name and the VIN, if that will work...and, just to clarify, mine is the " DK" prefix.
Rob

[sigmfsk]

Mar 5, 2013 4:38:31 GMT -5 tk826 said:

They should have rightfully (and probably legally) stayed on the car.

Is there any reason to believe that the fender tags "probably legally" should have stayed on the car?

From what I can tell, that fender tag is simply an interesting piece of information, like a broadcast sheet stuffed under the seat. It's not needed or used by any government agency.

[tk826]

I'm no expert, but I believe it falls under this...

18 USCS 2321:
TITLE 18. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE:

(a) Whoever buys, receives, possesses, or obtains control of, with intent to sell or otherwise dispose of, a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part, knowing that an identification number for such motor vehicle or part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

107 A.L.R.5th 567

SUMMARY: Illegally removing or altering a vehicle identification number (VIN) or selling or possessing a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN constitutes a crime in most states. In order to impose liability, state courts normally require a culpable mental state on the part of the defendant in altering or removing a VIN or in possessing a vehicle or vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN. Some states, however, do not require any culpable mental state on the part of the defendant when selling a vehicle or vehicle part with a removed or altered VIN.

“identification number” means a number or symbol that is inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter 301 and part C of subtitle VI of title 49;

Now if that strictly refers to the dashboard only, I'm not sure.
But, the VIN number is stamped on the fender tag.

[legendaryacura8]

I'm pretty sure that only applies to the dash VIN. Otherwise anyone that replaces a door with the VIN sticker or any other random piece of a car with the VIN stamped on it would also fall under this..

[sigmfsk]

Mar 5, 2013 17:52:08 GMT -5 tk826 said:

Now if that strictly refers to the dashboard only, I'm not sure.
But, the VIN number is stamped on the fender tag.

The VIN number is stamped in the body in several places all over the car, and the fender tag has it also. As far as I know, the only VIN number that is covered under the regulation above is the VIN tag.

I think the key is the last sentence:

> “identification number” means a number or symbol that is inscribed
> or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter 301 and part
> C of subtitle VI of title 49;

I don't know why one should think that a mopar fender tag would count under that.
A fender tag can't be used as replacement for a VIN tag at the DMV. It seems that the VIN tag is special, such as it having special rivets that had to be accounted for by the factory.

[58hemifury]

The VIN tag is all that legally matters. I'm pretty sure that the tag repros require some sort of evidence of ownership but I may have been wrong. That is more likely to prove that the car exists (to keep legit cars legit), if you have a crappy brown Satellite it can't be trimmed as a Road Runner but the VIN tells that too.
Here is a company that makes them, I haven't read their terms.
www.trimtags.com/ordering.html

[58hemifury]

A couple of others on this forum.
www.moparchat.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-45727.html

[tk826]

I just found this advice on the a-Body forum...

Actually it is not illegal to remove fender tags by the owner, just like it is not illegal to remove the tags on your pillows. It is however illegal for anyone else to remove these tags if you are not the owner or do not have the owners permission.
It is illegal to remove the fender tags and sell them but at the same time, there are numbers on these tags which match numbers stamped on some body parts which must match, otherwise it will be looked at like a stolen vehicle by the authorities as well as the motor vehicle bureau. When a rotisserie restoration or full body paint is done, all the tags are removed and replaced upon completion of the restoration.

So I am guessing it is ok to remove them but not to sell them or attach them onto another car (?)

[sigmfsk]

Mar 5, 2013 19:21:59 GMT -5 tk826 said:

So I am guessing it is ok to remove them but not to sell them or attach them onto another car (?)

> it is not illegal to remove fender tags by the owner
Agree

> It is however illegal for anyone else to remove these tags if you
> are not the owner or do not have the owners permission.
Agree. Just like it is illegal for me to remove your side mirror without your permission.

> It is illegal to remove the fender tags and sell them
Disagree. You can sell a tag just as one can sell a side mirror.


I think it is legal to sell them, and its legal to attach them to another car. Just like a broadcast sheet, or side mirror.

I believe the confusing issue is with regard to fraud. Why on earth would somebody want to put a fender tag on their car that didn't belong? A likely explanation is that they wanted to fool someone. And a likely reason to fool someone would be for fraud: to misrepresent the car so someone would overpay. So fender-tag stampers want to ensure that their customers aren't attempting to use the fender tags to commit a fraud, and therefore the stampers (to various degrees) attempt to ensure that they're only producing a fender tag that matched an original.

[Ghostbluesman (Ghostsoldier)]

I wish I knew where the frak my fender tags were....

Rob

[sigmfsk]

I create this thread to capture the discussion about fender tags. I move the posts about the fender tags that we had in the headlight thread
www.bluesmobiles.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=police&action=display&thread=1262
to here.